Jayadvaita Swami attacks Madhudvisa dasa
BBT — By Madhudvisa dasa on March 20, 2004 at 6:54 amThe following is a description of Jayadvaita Swami demanding a private meeting with me at the in March of 2004 at the annual ISKCON Mayapur Festival at Sridharma Mayapur, West Bengal, India, and what happened, “behind closed doors…”
In 2004 I attended the Mayapur Festival for the first time in many years in 2004 as I had some service to do there for ITV [ISKCON television].
Jayadvaita Swami was chasing me at mangal aroti and whenever he saw me walking around the temple grounds. I was avoiding him, but finally he aproached me and said rather roughly “I want to talk to you!”
He wanted me to go to his room but I said it is nice here, why not talk here in the park? He didn’t like that idea but we talked for a while there. He was very rough, demanding that he is a senior devotee. He told me that I should surrender to him and accept whatever he has done to Srila Prabhuapda’s books, he demanding that I take down all my websites and publish widely letters apologizing to him and endorsing his “Revised and Enlarged” versions of Srila Prabhupada’s books.
All the time he was saying “come to my room…” So finally, out of curiosity as to what he had in store for me in his room, I did.
When we got to his room all hell broke loose. He was screaming and shouting “shithead, shithead, shithead… why don’t you accept me as your authority… Take down all your websites.” He was so crazy I really was very shocked. He was pounding me with his fists and kicking me and hitting the walls and kicking the furniture around all the time to the “shithead, shithead, shithead” mantra. And sometimes he would become tired and lie down on his bed to re-gather his energy.
It is not that he physically hurt me. His punches were very light and I could hardly feel his kicks. I did not end up with any bruises or anything. But it was really an amazing sight to see…
I was just sitting there chanting Hare Krishna completely stunned. I had no idea at all that JAS was so crazy. There is no question in my mind now, he is completely insane. He is supposed to be a swami, one who is the master of his senses but his is completely out of control. He let me know in no uncertain terms that it was only because of three crazy devotees that his book editing was ever challenged. He named them: Kirtanananda, Hansadutta and me. He told me for years he has been trying to destroy my preaching. We saw that recently in LA. He tried to poison so many devotees against me. Yadubara and many others. But somehow his actions have not had much effect.
Ultimately I left his room, completely shocked. I could never believe he would act like this. He was still waving his arms around “shithead, shithead, shithead.” Anyhow he is very afraid of Hansadutta Prabhu and by Krishna’s arrangement Bhakti Charu Swami paid Hansadutta’s airfare to Mayapur to give him some inspiration for the animation project he plans to start in Mayapur. He arrived here the morning after JAS’s “shithead, shithead, shithead” explosion.
Hansadutta said the first person he saw here was JAS when he saw him he looked like he had seen a ghost. JAS tried to attack Hansadutta, that he [JAS] was a BBT trustee. That is as far as he got and Hansadutta completely demolished him. So we have not seen JAS since them. How on earth can ISKCON have such crazy people in such high positions. It is insane. Hansadutta says I should have recorded it and posted it on the internet then everyone could see what sort of “swami” he is.
JAS admitted finally during the “shithead, shithead” conversation that there was never a complete list of the changes to the Gita circulated to the devotees. Only a list of changes to the translations. He also admitted and we know it that the changes to the purports are “very extensive.” And to this day the only person who is aware of these extensive changes to Prabhupada’s purports is JAS. No one else has ever seen them or knows what they are or review them. He also expressed his disgust that Prabhupada’s original books are being printed and distributed and said, “It’s only the ritviks who are buying them.” [which is of course competely untrue. There is nothing that unites the devotees of all camps more than everyone's desire to read Srila Prabhupada's original books...]
Please see the following email exchange with Jayadvaita Swami where he admits that all I have said above is true.
For the record, since this meeting, Jayadvaita has been a perfect gentleman and “very sweet” to me. Always praising my determination and dedication to Srila Prabhupada… But I think this is only a show… Deep down in his heart he still does not like me very much…
In the email discussion below my [Madhudvisa's] comments are in blue and Jayadvaita’s comments are in black.
From Madhuvisa:
Dear Sir, (Jayadvaita is addressing me as “Sir”?)
> I humbly admit I found it uncomfortable that you yelled at me so much tonight, calling me so many bad names and overall was very rough with me.
You deserved it. And more…
> We are both followers of Srila Prabhupada and we may have different opinions on some points but we should be able to meet in a gentlemanly manner.
You’re twenty years my junior. You claim to be a brahmacari, and I am a sannyasi. You were initiated (if at all) ten years later than me.
And yet you think you’re perfectly within your rights to broadcast to the whole world, “Jayadvaita Swami [is] disobeying Srila Prabhupada’s direct order that he should not change a word in his books” (an order, of course, that Srila Prabhupada never gave me). And still, after publishing this and other such thoroughly rude insults, you somehow believe you’re entitled to be treated “in a gentlemanly manner.” Hmmm. . .
> You are asking me to apologize but I would humbly request some sort of apology from you also. You called me “shit head” so many times, I really do not think that is appropriate.
You’re right. I apologize [for calling you "s...head"]. If I’d used Srila Prabhupada’s language, I would have said you have cow dung for brains.
> I understand you are upset about some of the things I have posted on the net, but on close examination you will find that every posting contains a significant point which we need to consider.
And lots of garbage we don’t. And, by the way, you don’t raise any points that BBT editors and consultants with much finer discretion than you haven’t considered already….
> Just on the few changes we looked at tonight you admitted to three errors you have introduced into the new version and surely if one did a through study there would be many hundreds of new errors.
Two, if I recall. Both of them petty. And I didn’t admit that I introduced them. If you’d been listening, you might have heard that I didn’t know whether the errors were mine or those of a typist.
> The point of my website is to show that in so many ways the philosophy presented in your “Revised and Enlarged” Gita differs substantially from Prabhupada’s original Bhagavad-gita As It Is. And you accept that. I accept that in some cases you have recovered missing things, etc. But overall I can not personally put my faith in your “Revised and Enlarged” Gita and so many devotees feel like this.
I am not in need of your faith, sir. Put it wherever you’d like.
> Your “Revised and Enlarged” Gita rests on your authority. You have decided what to change and what not to change and as we saw there are so many things you could have changed, but have chosen not to, therefore it is all according to your opinion. You have decided what to change and what not to change.
Son, *every* editor decides what to change and what not to change. And your complaint seems to be that my opinions differ from yours. Your opinion is that perhaps fifty of the revisions are justified, the rest not…. Should I feel crushed? Yes, after due deliberation and consultation, I decided what to change and what not to change….
> The point I have made is this is a very dangerous precedent for the future. We have to preserve the original teachings of Srila Prabhupada. And the original Macmillan Gita was accepted by Prabhupada, he did not request anyone to reedit it. That is the main point. If Prabhupada wanted his books reedited that would be a different matter.
> TKG put this question to Srila Prabhupada in the rascal editors conversation, “Can JAS go through and reedit the books?” and Prabhupada’s conclusion was, “No, the next printing should be the original way.” So that is a clear order from Srila Prabhupada NOT to reedit the books. Your interpretation of this is not honest. The original way clearly means the original way the books were printed.
Not honest? Dear Mr. Honesty: I’m sitting here in front of my VedaBase, and I’ll be hog-tied if I see anywhere in that conversation, “Can JAS go through and reedit the books?” You can take your brand of honesty and shove it.
> I think you are a little unfair in so heavily criticizing the articles I have written,
I haven’t criticized them heavily enough.
> Hopefully when we meet again it can be on more gentlemanly terms.
Hopefully when we meet again you will deserve it.
> I am not anything special but I am sincerely trying to serve Srila Prabhupada with all my energy and I do not really find it very comfortable if you just want to yell at me and call me names.
Oh, you’re uncomfortable, are you? Dear, dear! You can dish out insults to your seniors in public, but when your seniors dish it out to you in private, you can’t take it. Poor baby!
> What is the point of this? My points are valid, and you have agreed to that, you have agreed to three errors in just the few verses we looked at tonight, so I humbly submit that all the faults are not on my side. You have to admit that there are some faults on your side also then we can make some progress.
Sir, I don’t have to negotiate with you. You can make progress on your own.
…
Hare Krsna. Yours in Srila Prabhupada’s service, Jayadvaita Swami
[I have deleted some text and the blue is by me - Madhudvisa dasa]
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12 Comments
Dear Jayadvaita Swami, (Dear Dryadvaita)
Don’t become Dryadvaita Svami as many are now calling you. Is your idea to dry up all the nectar in our gurudev’s books? You were also there when our gurudev was poisoned. I saw you crying on the final instruction video. I give you the benefit of the doubt that those tears were not crocodile tears. You saw how Prabhupad’s hands & feet were swollen. These are symptoms of a poisoned body.
Some of you may still have connections to your past religions, which might say it is a good deed, a laudable act of bravery, to killeth Srila Prabhupad. Why? Because he had many “other religion” disciples whose parents were extremely upset that their children had given up worldly pursuits in favor of serving the lotus feet of some Hindu God, especially in the form of idol worship. What could be worse?
You spoke to me many things from time to time which I’d dare not repeat but please don’t be a part of the dismantling of the manifest teachings of Srila AC Bhaktivedanta Svami Prabhupad. Please don’t do this. Your first & foremost sisya from Holland, Kadamba Kanana Rasa-Parayana Svami thinks very highly of you but after speaking with him I found him to be chock full of misconceptions.
Literally chock full. He couldn’t be learning these things from you. You used to give such nice Bhagavatam & Gita classes back in 1971. What happened? What went wrong? Peer pressure?
TarunKrsnadas
While going through that email conversation between J and Madhuvisa prabhu, I felt that Jayadvaita’s answers are “typical” of his mood – puffed up, his NASTY-type slice & dice technique. I thought of how (when he was trying to “pull rank” in terms of “I am 10 years your senior IF” – as he said “if” – “you were even initiated, AND his saying, “I am a sannyasi whereas you are a brahmacari.” I felt it was so OBNOXIOUS and I was DISGUSTED!
I was thinking of how Sukadev Goswami was a “junior” to all of the sages who had gathered when Maharaj Pariksit was going to leave the planet, and although Sukadev was their “junior” ALL of them offered RESPECT to Sukadev Goswami, the seat of esteem, AND, they ALL LISTENED to Sukadev Goswami speak the Srimad Bhagavatam, including Srila Vyasadev himself, who was Sukadev Goswami’s father, and from whom, Sukadev had heard the Srimad Bhagavatam.
The FIRST quality of a devotee is HUMILITY. Certainly if Jayadvaita had his disagreements with Madhuvisa prabhu, he could have handled things in a MUCH MORE HUMBLE manner. I was DISGUSTED by seeing what Jayadvaita had written. It seems that some kind of demonic influence has come into the ISKCON hierarchy.
As far as “corrections” to Srila Prabhupada’s books go, SO MANY people became devotees while Srila Prabhupada was on the planet despite whatever so-called “mistakes” in the books, and there is that verse, tad vag visargo… which covers for this.
May we somehow attain the mercy of Srila Prabhupada and that of Sri Krsna.
I remain your servant,
Mahavegavati Dasi
Hare Krsna
My respect to you..MADHUDIVISA..DAS
.It is clear Jayadaita Swami devotee in these regard of your interview with him fell in passion falling from his Spiritual Position…
I HAVE NO DISIRE TO OFEND ANYONE…as you know
Many Sages have fell in errors AND LEFT OTHERS UNSATISFIED by there unilateral disitions and analized what it has caused and changed The Curse of Things…for better….
Here we say if a river makes noise, water it has…meaning something s is going on..THATS NEEDS TO BE SOLVED…
We must acept in a humible state of mind…What other devotee s are thinking…I see it is not evil nor out of order.It is MURARI KRISHNA WISH NOT OURS…TO CLEAN THE HOUSE…not to segragate or brothers no one will enter VRNDAVAN with this idea…krishna is friend of everyone…
We are humans in evolution i see you do not mean to argue..invain…
or to dissacredite anyone….
Many many devotees wish to see Srila PRABHUPAD S TEACHINGS BACK AGAIN…
WITH MORE PAITING.. for the say more thing we can imagine..AS HE DISIRED IN HIS LETTERS…I BEG LORD KRISHNA BHAGAVAN TO RESTORE THE FILOSOFY OF RECONCILIACION BEETWEEN DEVOTEES THE ONLY HARM IS IN THE FUTURE DEVOTEES…CONFUTION…
IT IS VERY CLEAR TO ME IF A RECIPE HAS THE THE ORIGINAL INGRIDIANTS IT MUST TASTE VERY GOOD.IF ONE THING IS MISING IT IS ONLY A SHADOW OF THE RECIPE…OUR SPIRITUAL MASTER BHAKTIVEDANTA SWAMI…LEFT THE RECIPE IN HIS WORDS..WITH SPIRITUAL POWER TO PRODUCE NECTAR…
I BEG YOU PLEASE ALL DEVOTEE IN CHARGE OF ISKON…
RETURN TO PRABHUPAD S TEXTS…
THIS HAS ONLY CAUSED CONFUTION…MAYA..LACK OF SPIRITUAL FRIENDSHIP
EGO PROBLEMS…WHEN THE REAL SUBJECT SHOULD BE REUNITING ALL DEVOTEES
OF LORD CHAITANYA WAHAPRABHU AND GIVE TO WORLD THE HOLY NAMES OF THE LORD.
THERE MUST BE A MEGA RESPECTFUL REUNION BETWEEN WITH ALL DEVOTEE S NOT TO FIGHT TO RESTORE WHAT HAS BEEN BROKEN…LIKE RESTORING THE JAPA BEEDS..IN ONE LINE TO DO SO WE MUST BE HUMBLE..AND FOLLOW PRABHUPAD S WAYS..
.WE DONT NEED POLITICAL SPIRITUAL PARTIES…WE NEED SPIRITUAL BROTHERHOOD..WHICH WELL PRABHUPAD SHOWED EXELENTLY..
IT IS NOT MY DISIRE TO OFFEND ANYONE..BUT THINK OF A UNITED POWERFUL HARE KRISHNA PLANET..
..Kaliyuga advances AND MAYA IS DISTRACTING…THIS GENERATION MUST BE STRONG..TO ENLIGHTEN SOULS… IT IS NOT OUR ADVANCES THAT MATTERS ..
.It is the People you help back to godhead….
JAYA GAURANGA…JAYA ALL THE LINE OF SPIRITUAL MASTERS..
That must be metioned we must know the roots…I pray for A BETTER RELATION between devotee s we must open our shell s..With love this Humble fallen Jiva that has nothing but to serve KRISHNA..
SU AMIGO FRANCO…VIVA KRISHNA…VIVA BHAKTIVEDANTA SWAMI PRABHUPAD…
Dear Prabhu, PAMHO. Your website is excellent and your research well done. There is urgent need of this. Thank you for your service to Srila Prabhupada and his legacy. I would like to speak with you about ideas for this service, and Srila Prabhupada has given me inner guidance, specific guidance that is, that I must speak out about his books and how they are not to be changed. It is not an easy task, but one that must be done for the sake of the future generations of devotees.
Your servant and sister, Govinda dasi
Srila Prabhupad literature shines by it self LIKE WHEN LITTLE KRISHNA AND BALARAM ENTERED A DARK ROOM HIDING FROM MOTHER YASODA LOOKING FOR YOGURT… THEY ENLIGHTEN ALL THE ROOM WITH THERE GLOW…
TILL NOW THERE IS NO ONE AS PURE AS HE…dont let maya win…if our spiritual master wanted he s original texts back again thats the way it should be…I am not a Bramana nor Sanyasi NOR I HAVE any spiritual level but i know one thing one must obey the instrutions of a Spiritual Master and Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupad WAS TRULY A REAL SPIRITUAL FATHER….
HARE KRISHNA PAMHO; A DEVOTEES FIRST QUALIFICATION IS THAT HE SHOULD BE HUMBLE!!!!!! TRINADAPI SUNICHENA…….. IF NOT HE IS A PRISONER OF FALSE EGO.KRISHNA SAYS IN GITA FROM SENSE OBJECTS KAMA DEVELOPS FRM KAMA ANGER(WICH MEANS EGO)FRM ANGER INTELLIGENCE IS LOOOST!!!!!!!!!!!!!PLEASE I DONT MEAN TO OFFEND ANY ONE BUUUT! I CANNOT STAND SHRILA PRABHUPADAS PURPORTS AND TRANSLATIONS TO BE RE_EDITED?????????????? FINDING FAULTS IN A QUALIFIED GURU LIKE PRABHUPADA WHO EPITOMISE HUMILTY IS A GRAVE OFFENCE!!!!!!!!!! A MAD ELEPHANT OFFENCE AT THAT.SOO SPIRITUAL LIFE IS FINIISHED FOR SUCH A PERSON. MAY KRISHNA GIVE HIM SOME INTELLIGENGCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I feel so confused over Jayadvaita Swami’s material world attachment, attachment to POWER. I find his behavior disgusting and an attack against true Krishna consciousness and Prabhupada. It is shocking and makes me ill and angry that this imposter is still holding the high position that he does. I find him to be very weak and hardly a devotee of Lord Krishna. Is he next going to tell us he is an incarnation of Supreme God? Jayadvaita needs to be rehabilitated. I will pray for him for surely evil has crept into hi soul.
Hare Krishna.
AGTSP.
PAMHO.
We cannot accept particular jds understandings because the purpose is not to achieve knowledge but prema bhakti, we cannot fall the knowledge-ism. The objective is jñana-sudha-bhakti (devotion devoid of knowledge.) Bhakti is devoid of any philosophical speculation.
Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur says: “In the course of time, unscrupulous and untruthful personalities have interpolated many chapters, mandalas (sections and divisions) and mantras into the Vedas, in order to fulfil various self-interests. Those parts that were added at a later time are called praksipta (interpolated) parts. It is not that we should accept any and every Vedic text as consistent evidence. Those Vedic granthas (sacred books) that the äcäryas in the sat-sampradäyas have accepted as evidence are definitely Veda and are authoritative evidence, but we should reject literature or parts of literature that they have not recognized.
Pratyaksa and other types of evidence depend on the senses, but since the senses of the conditioned jiva are always subject to bhrama (illusion), pramäda (error), vipralipsä (cheating), and
karanäpätava (imperfection of the senses), how can the knowledge acquired through the senses be factual and faultless? The fully independent possessor of all potencies, Sri Bhagavän Himself, personally manifested as perfect Vedic knowledge within the pure hearts of great maharsis and saintly äcäryas who were situated in full samädhi. Therefore, the Vedas, which are the embodiment of svatah-siddha-jñäna (self-manifest, pure knowledge) are always faultless and fully dependable as evidence.” Jaiva Darma 13
There was once a humble man of god who came in search of us
with all the love in his heart to show the world love of Krishna…
He came with no material opulence fighting for his life on the way to America…
All by himself helping people out of drugs out of maya in complete
ignorance…starting with a little place where he could teach pure love of godhead showing people to chant Krishna s name…and teaching the lords pastime s..
.and after the years went by printing so many books and opening temple s and the hearts of so many all over the world…
This humble man was really not alone for he always prayed to lord Krishna
to help him…and Krishna provided his task of translating for us in so little time not sleeping in time s always thinking in our benefit…only a pure devotee could do so… helping mankind to grow from animal life to became a spiritual being…
I WILL ALWAYS BE THANKFUL TO THIS GREAT HUMBLE MAN,,,for his love to human race…for his love to his Spiritual Master Bhaktisiddhanta Swami following his instruction to come to america and to the world and show us what was missing in our hearts…
Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu s Simplified the process
to return to godhead and Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
gave us this precious gift in this difficult age of Kaliyuga…
Eternal thanks again to again to this Great Humble Soul..
…….JAYA….GURUDEVA…JAYA BHAKTIAVATAR…..JAYA GOVINDA.
Jayadvaita, you were such a sweet, humble devotee in the early 70’s. Now you’re just another man with an inferiority complex turned meglomaniac by opportunity.
I like Bertrand Russell’s interpretation of megolamania: “The megalomaniac differs from the narcissist by the fact that he wishes to be powerful rather than charming, and seeks to be feared rather than loved. To this type belong many lunatics and most of the great men of history.
You obviously want to be feared and worshiped, but is this really the epitaph you want on your tombstone?
no longer your servant,
John
(Jitendriya dasa)
Hare Krishna!
I’ve just started bhakti yoga, and I receive emails from you
Madhudvisa Dasa.
I don’t know much, but I do know this..
Jayadvaita Swami should not have his own opinion when he is a spiritual leader,
he should have Krishna’s opinion. Just tell the same words as Krishna, so the words, the sprit of the words don’t die. Isn’t that why Prabhupada wrote “Bhagavad Gita AS IT IS”. As it is, that’s what we want.
fallen souls like me, who just started bhakti yoga, just found out about Krishna and who is trying learn can easily be guided in the wrong direction when spiritual leaders have some motives for themselves, because when they are called spiritual leaders we believe they have control over their senses, and simply just deliver Krishnas message.That’s what we want, we want Krishna.
In short, no personal opinion! Jayadvaita Swami certainly has his own opinion.
He should work on that and control his tongue.
Your servant,
Julianne
the devotees of the lord are known by their sweet words and the mercyfull vibrations that emminate from them.sb